Café-Salon Philosophique #21

September 12, 1998

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No. of Participants: 20

Evening's Topic for Discussion: What has the "Clinton Affair" symbolized and reflected to you?

Samuel began the evening by welcoming those new and old to Cafe-Salon. Stan then read the Cafe Guidelines. Samuel then asked us to think about, "What DID ever happen to shame, loyalty, self-reliance and personal responsibility? Are money and sex interdependent?"

Samuel began the discussion on the "Clinton Affair" by stating how, "the government officials who are accusing Clinton of wrong-doing, are a bunch of hypocrites." These so called, "self-righteous," mediocre actors "preach morals" and point "fingers of injustice" towards the leader of our country, when they in fact, do the same thing every day. (Exchange money, sex, information in not always legal and honest ways).

Ken Starr has made the "Clinton Affair," a personal vendetta since the Whitewater incident by doing everything in his power to try and destroy this man. This of course, is done with legal "justification" for "the good of the people." So why has so much attention been focused on this personal incident instead of world affairs?

Samuel then asked Vineeta to begin the evening's discussion by sharing her views on the topic. She feels that, "this whole affair is like an infection that has festered throughout the United States which has finally surfaced." She thinks that "this is good" because, "when we get into a crisis, then things have to change." Also, she feels that this incident has brought up the point of how "men treat women, like second class citizens and women treat each other the same way." "This shows a lack of respect for each other." "I think it has alot to do with how we have learned to be so uncomfortable with our bodies and to be repressed sexually."

Alan believes "things are happening multi-dimensionally." "The president is like a spearhead which branches out to about 300-400 people in government agencies. What they are doing to Clinton is just more political repression." "There's alot of ideas traveling around out there with no set definition as to what really took place."

"I also find that this is an issue of character. He is in the office to get the job done, the executor. He shouldn't be persecuted for his own personal, private affairs. This was not an endangerment to the country." This is like a "spit in the wind" compared to what past presidents have done in a corruptive manner affecting the Affairs of State."

Shalom stated that he doesn't see why "this affair was such a big deal." It was two consenting adults willingly participating. "I'm not concerned with the sexual part of it, I'm looking at what was legal." "Did he lie under oath?" Segal countered with, "What's so sacred about being politically correct anyway?" The symbology of this affair for Judy was to learn "how much truth and honesty do I dare face about my "self?"

Joseph gave these observations from watching TV. "Americans are "narcissistic in nature." Life is lived as a soap opera, from a charismatic point of view. I just see the whole thing as a big wake up call. We need to pay attention to where we are and what we are doing at the moment."

Tamera sees the incident as "a mirror and a way to reflect upon the "self." She also believes that "the media is sensationalizing the whole thing." "Just look at the stories they write on Jon Benet, OJ and Princess Diana." Rae believes the whole affair is a "reflection of what goes on throughout all the governmental organizations and systems in our country."

Reinhard sees it as a "reflection of being between changing times." He finds it hard to believe that the president is being "scrutinized and criminalized for a sexual affair." "What this has reflected to me, is what's important to me," Richard said. "It's a wake up call for me to pay attention to how I act, think and feel. Also, how I present myself to others."

Barbara thinks "the whole thing is ridiculous." "I listen a little to what's going on, and then I let it go." "Humans have done this same thing over and over," so why the focus on just this one man?"

Samuel then asked the question, "What does this reflect for the next generation? What of morals and money?" Marta stated that, "scandals have been happening in the government for centuries, so what's the big deal?" "It's been happening for generations and generations." "Sensationalism and distraction created by the media causes our puritanical society to panic and react to what's brought to the surface. This panic and reaction then creates a kind of frenzy until we work ourselves into a crisis."

Brad finds the coverage by the media of this event "aggravating." He doesn't "really care what was going on in Clinton's personal life, but is concerned with the "lying" under oath."

David believes that "this affair" gives us the opportunity to "look at our dark side." "The dark side can expose our inner hatred, anger, fears, and rage that we need to deal with. He talked about how we "lie and cheat ourselves of life." Marta "didn't understand about the dark side" and asked David to explain. He gave the example of the murder trial of OJ Simpson and how he really "got into it" because "through OJ, my feelings about my ex-wife as I was going through a divorce was played out during the murder trial." Everybody laughed at this.

Shalom then gave a little "Russian joke" about the economy. "There are two opinions. Those of the pessimist and those of the optimist."The pessimist says, "things couldn't get any worse." The optimist says, "yes they could." (laugh, laugh). Howard said that "what the president did does not compare to what Nixon did in the Watergate incident." "Other things that have been done by past presidents have been alot worse than this one little personal affair."

Alessandra stated that, "the whole incident has been a big waste of time, money, energy and effort, which is not unusual for the government." "To think that our country and all those watching (the world), would put such a great emphasis on someone's one-time personal affair, while the significant worldly affairs get brushed aside."

Vineeta thought that it was "a woman seeking attention and the attraction to a man of power." (Have you read in the latest tabloids how Monica now "regrets destroying the man that she loves so much?")

Stan doesn't understand why we haven't revolted against the various establishments - the media, government, etc.? "We Americans are so saturated, that we don't even know what we want." The problem is, "we don't give a damn about anyone else or really anything else that is going on in the world but our selves." Our "selfish little selves."

On that note, Samuel asked us to summarize what we learned from sharing our views of the "Clinton Affair" this evening. David said, "that it doesn't really matter who is president, the world is going to go on." Alan said that the whole thing is just an "idea of power." Marta thinks that "we are on the cusp of something new but yet, everything is pretty much the same ole, same ole."

Joseph said that according to astrological predictions, "the economy IS going down the tubes in a couple of years. "We are going to see alot of changes in the political and economical scenes." Cash will be diverted out of the country and the "heart drive" will be competing with the "hard drive."

Judy doesn't "know where we are going." Neither does Tamera but, she says that "no problems wouldn't solve anything." Reinhard described the evening's topic as "mass confusion" and a "wake up call" to his own way of thinking. Richard said that he "feels rich and knows who he is and where he is going."

Shalom summed up the evening's discussion by saying this quote, "the holy empire was destroyed by holy decadence and unnecessary strife." Alan said he thought the evening was fun. Brad felt that the evening discussion helped to "put things in perspective" and helped us work towards "establishing a goal."

David said "sex, money and power are the route of prostate problems." (laugh, laugh). Howard just felt "ambivalent towards the evening discussion." Vineeta felt that it was "a good look towards change." She believes that "crisis helps to elevate consciousness."

Stan thinks we should enjoy life and Samuel ended with, "bad script, bad media, bad acting."

Our next meeting for Cafe Philosophique will be held September 26, 1998 at Barnes & Noble , 2915 Pearl St., Boulder, CO beginning at 7:30 p.m.

We will continue to "Envision the Future," with the topic to be decided at that time. Shalom.

Reported by Alessandra